Season 4 discussion [spoilers]

[mekare]

So, seeing as noone else has stepped up, I decided to make a discussion post here. So far I've encountered three reactions to season 4:

a) Thanks for your input - goodbye.
b) Johnlock didn't happen - extreme anger
c) Not bad, some things good, some not.

So, what do you think? Which was the best episode, which one the worst? Favourite/least favourite moment?
What do you think about Mycroft's more prominent role this season?
What do you think of the treatment of Eurus? (I found it pretty problematic.)
Could you enjoy it despite its problems?

On another note, can you recommend any fanworks? Especially meta? I am very much undecided about this season and good meta always helps me bring my own thoughts in order.

I'd love to see some responses, I can't imagine people don't want to talk about it, no matter what they thought of the season.

Last but not least, some things I loved:

- Badass Ms Hudson
- a lot more Mycroft background
- Sherlock's parents saying he always was the adult
- Sherlock and Rosamund and the rattle

Let's get some life back into this comm people.

ETA: I'd like to recommend this meta by the bakerstreetbabes on The Final Problem. It helped me make sense of some of the scenes that didn't seem to make sense before. (It in no way states that the episode or season is without inconsistencies...): Read it here.

Comments

[venturous]

I was taken on a wild ride and had some of the mess and conflicting feels from S3 resolved, and for that I'm grateful. Mary got to be a badass hero spy and then dramatically exit, blessing Johnlock on her way out.

Two men & a Baby!!!!!

Badass Hudson, indeed! I look forward to seeing her character change in fic going foreword.

I really wanted all the 'altered states' from various drugs, and the memory/time twisting to MEAN SOMETHING. I feel like it still does, there is a big puzzle unsolved.

Except the HEA ending for Family Holmes seems to preclude that. While it was happening I adored Sherlock being the hero and saving Euros from herself. But also, at the time I HATED her torturing him and John and Mycroft and others. Her storyline was too condensed, maybe. Its like if she can be healed by love & music, how could she be this evil mastermind? Maybe it was just rushed.

oh, I loved Sherlock's Highgate bolt-hole! Can I live there? (well, might be a bit damp & spidery for me, actually.)

thanks for asking!

[mekare]

Okay first, I love your icon!
Wild ride indeed! That's what it felt like.
Yes! Two men and baby was the one thing that made me happy about the ending, as well as Sherlock reaching out to Eurus via music.
Urgh, I've read so many "maybe it's all a dream/hallucnation theories". But with that final episode I guess they really were real after all.

I am so glad you replied! It's terrible watching a season like this and having noone to talk about it. My friends haven't watched it yet and they're not in the online fandom and into analyzing and stuff...

[sideris]

I am invested enough in this series, in these characters, to come back for more despite my disappointment with S4.

I didn't really expect Johnlock to happen (although I did flirt with hoping), so that wasn't so much the source of my anger as the way they made the season All About Mary. Which also means that, if TFP really was the last main arc episode, the entire series was about her and her contribution to the Holmes/Watson pairing. Methinks I smell a panicked, stick-on response to allegations of misogyny.

But my major issue with the season was the way they dropped earlier character development and plot arcs. Although, that's nothing new. Molly and Mrs H have been bouncing about between besotted and independent, and liberal and prim from the start. This season, they did it with John and Sherlock, too.

[mekare]

I also didn't seriously think they'd make Johnlock happen. I do understand people's disappointment though...

Which also means that, if TFP really was the last main arc episode, the entire series was about her and her contribution to the Holmes/Watson pairing. Methinks I smell a panicked, stick-on response to allegations of misogyny.

Mhhh, but she was in canon yeah? And she died in canon as well if I remember correctly. Though I don't know how much was made of it impact-wise in the books....

the way they dropped earlier character development and plot arcs.

YES. John irks me the most. So unneccessary! And you're so right about Molly and Mrs H. They get so little overall screentime that their characterizations feel disjointed - even if they were intended as showing different facets of their characters...

[kis]

Mhhh, but she was in canon yeah? And she died in canon as well if I remember correctly. Though I don't know how much was made of it impact-wise in the books....

Very little. In The Empty House, I think there's some mention of Watson's 'sad loss' which, given that he married Mary Morstan at the end of The Sign of Four but was wifeless in TEH, has mostly been interpreted as her having died. Prior to S4, Mofftiss were saying Mary didn't have to die because ACD hadn't explicitly killed her off.

YES. John irks me the most. So unneccessary!

ITA! I went back and rewatched Mary's death and discovered John wasn't even in the room when she got shot! How can he possibly have blamed Sherlock for it? Mofftiss 'explained' his anger by saying Mary got shot because Sherlock had been showing off and goading Norbury, but John didn't know that. Fair enough, Sherlock could have felt guilty about it, because he knew all of what happened, but John blaming Sherlock instead of the villain with the gun was risible.

[mekare]

Thanks for the canon info. My Annotated Edition is still on the shelf, waiting for some proper time to delve into the stories in the right order. I'd read some of them before, but never in order of publication.

Prior to S4, Mofftiss were saying Mary didn't have to die because ACD hadn't explicitly killed her off.

Good thing then that I didn't follow what they were saying beforehand at all. Those teases.

I really have to do that rewatch soon as well. John wasn't in the room?! That makes even less sense. That scene where he lashed out and kicked Sherlock also didn't ring true to his character for me... not when Sherlock was so ill. (I mean his violence after Reichenbach was completely understandable after Sherlock's so NOT FUNNY attempt of a reunion surprise in disguise.)

[kis]

**nods** The only explanation for that degree of violence that satisfies me is John being in love with Sherlock and angry at himself and Sherlock for not having admitted their feelings for each before Mary came along. That allows me to interpret Sherlock's "I killed his wife" as Sherlock knowing that, by coming back after Reichenbach, he effectively ruined the Watsons' marriage. I know I'm biased because I ship Johnlock so ardently, but that lens is the only one through which Sherlock can fairly be described as truly clever, IMO. Without it, the plot holes are even more ridiculous.

[mummimamma]

I'm a bit ambivalent to say the least. On the other hand I haven't seen the episodes again yet, and I actually think that may be a good idea, both to take more time watching them, and not the frantic "must watch everything what happens next!"-watching, which was mostly done on iffy sites online, since it hasn't come here yet.

My biggest beef with S4 is that there's too much flash and bang, meaning things that look cool and fancy which really, really doesn't impact in the story in any meaningful way. Under this I count all and any explosions - totally pointless. Equally all shots of Sherlock standing on top of things. They spend a lot of time building up to it, but it has no meaning except for the visual. Here I used to have a really good example, but I've forgotten it (so annoying!!).

On the other hand I tend to be critical of this, and prefer story to explosions, even character development, which I guess they are trying to do. Sherlock is no longer - if it ever was - a detective show, it's a show about a detective, and I miss the detecting part of it (I've watched since it started.)

The second episode was my favourite (for now), and the part with Sherlock and Faith/Eurus was brilliant.

The third episode didn't make sense to me, and I found the whole story about Eurus problematic. Although I must admit to yelling when Moriarty entered the stage (although it didn't make sense in the big picture - but it was a brilliant scene)

I'm not really answering any of your questions, I'm just trying to get some frustration out of my system I think. Also I realise I need to rewatch the whole thing. Good thing I have no plans for this weekend (either).

[mekare]

I'm not really answering any of your questions, I'm just trying to get some frustration out of my system I think.

No worries! They were just intended as conversation starting points and venting is absolutely legit after a season like that.

Have you done the rewatch and has it changed your opinion? I still need to find the time to watch a second time and I think maybe some things may make sense then. Though definitely not all of them. Nothing can make sense of John's out-of-character texting. Nothing.

I agree about the flash and bang - I think the bakerstreetbabes mentioned this in their review of episode two: Making a story bigger can also make it smaller at the same time. (I am probably misquoting...)

[snycock]

I liked some parts of it - most of it, maybe? Definitely episode 2, The Lying Detective, which was my favorite as well. The Six Thatchers was okay for most of it but the "Mary heroically saves Sherlock" bit just made me cringe, and I generally like Mary, but agree that it felt like there was a lot of focus on her in this season, and I'm really in it for the boys.

I thought Sherlock's character development was wonderful - I'd re-watched some early episodes before the season started, and you can really see how much more human and accepting of his emotions and his feelings for other people he has become. And I remain absolutely in awe of Benedict's acting skills.

I thought John got some short shrift in terms of character development, particularly in episode 2. The whole thing about him texting a random woman he met on the bus struck me wrong, and even though it turned out to be a feint, I still struggled to understand. Not that John can't have an affair, but I really didn't feel like they laid the groundwork for that well. And some of his reactions in episode 3 seemed odd as well.

I enjoyed (?) episode three the first time I watched it, the way you enjoy a roller-coaster ride because it's so emotionally taxing that you can't really stop to analyze it. But afterwards I started seeing all the plot holes and inconsistencies and things that didn't make sense. The production values were really awful and inconsistent as well - there were lights that were on in one frame and off in the next, cameramen visible in shots, bad CGI explosions, security computers with medical displays, the rug in 221B that apparently survived a grenade explosion intact and clean, etc.

Eurus bothered me a lot as well. Not that she was their sister, or even secret (although that story starts to completely fall apart when you think about it), but that she was this super-human insane genius villain who can apparently mind-control an entire island of people to set up a freaky murder maze for her favorite sibling. Like, if she could get off the island, why would she ever go back? I also HATE when mentally ill people are made into scary super-villains since it just perpetuates the whole "mentally ill people are chaotic and dangerous and scary" stigma. I wrote a complaint letter to the BBC about it.

I'm firmly of the belief that the ending montage establishes that John and Sherlock are living together at 221B Baker Street, sleeping together in Sherlock's room while Rosie gets John's old room as the nursery. That's my headcanon anyway.

[mekare]

Thanks for your long and thoughtful response!

I agree that the groundwork for a lot of things just wasn't laid down properly. Especially John (that thing is one of my main issues with this season). But Sherlock's development was nice to see. One of the bakerstreetbabes put it so mch more eloquently in her review of The Final Problem: how Sherlock has become able to reach out for a connection to someone who doesn't believe he (or in this cas she) is capable of it Link when he once believed of himself that he was unable to make and maintain social connections.

I really didn't notice anything about the production values, maybe I will when I rewatch and can see more because I'm not clinging to the edge of my seat so much.

I also HATE when mentally ill people are made into scary super-villains since it just perpetuates the whole "mentally ill people are chaotic and dangerous and scary" stigma.

Yep. Did the BBC reply at all? Either to you personally or witha blanket reaction?

I really, really like your headcanon.

[out_there]

I actually quite enjoyed it. Possibly because it's the first time since s1 that it's made me want to sit down and write in the fandom again. (Admittedly, due to Mycroft/Lestrade rather than John/Sherlock, but I do like that John and Sherlock basically seem to be living together and raising Rosie...)

I think episode one was a little weak -- a lot of flash that didn't add up to too much, and I didn't entirely trust the death of Mary to actually be a death, so I didn't find it as moving as I might -- but I liked episode two, and I'm happy to handwave logical errors for the sake of episode three (Eurus might not make sense in some ways, but the idea that there was someone pulling Moriarty's strings -- that the biggest threat to Sherlock and Mycroft would come from someone so close to them, there's something about that that makes sense in a Sherlock-world way).

- Sherlock's parents saying he always was the adult

I'm not convinced about that, but I'll happily believe that the Holmes parents are a little unreliable in assessing their children.

[mekare]

Admittedly, due to Mycroft/Lestrade

So I was not alone in detecting some moments there, was I? I need to pay attention when I rewatch. (Though that scene with Lady Smallwood was strange). Anyway I was happy we got so much more Mycroft, and Mycroft acting out of his comfort zone than usual.

I'll happily believe that the Holmes parents are a little unreliable in assessing their children.

Oooh definitely!

Thanks for responding!

[out_there]

Though that scene with Lady Smallwood was strange). Anyway I was happy we got so much more Mycroft, and Mycroft acting out of his comfort zone than usual.

Absolutely. I loved the amount of Mycroft there, and that was what caught my imagination. As for Lady Smallwood, the scene was strange but rather proved that Mycroft is the only person who has less understanding of personal interest than Sherlock. They are two very awkward human beings.